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High school Tournaments


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After reading an article in the Star Tribune the other day about the escalating costs of renting venues for state tournaments, I can't figure out why the MSHSL continues to think the Excel Center (capacity 17,000 or so) is appropriate for girl's hockey. I just got done watching a wonderful EP / CDH overtime game and the place looks empty. I've never seen a report on which tournaments break even, but I'd have to believe the wrestling and boys hockey tournaments fill the house and are in the black. The state volleyball tournament was at least 1/2 filled in the bottom level with two games being played at once. As a former HS and college player, I would rather play in front of a packed house rather than have an atmosphere that infers no one cares. Take the same 5,000 fans at the X and put them in Ridder arena and you would have a festive atmosphere in a venue of appropriate size for the event. The MSHSL is debating taking tourneys outstate to save money, why not just place events in appropriate sized venues?


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I totally agree. The problem...

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I totally agree. The problem is, a group of parents yelled and screamed a few years ago that girls should have the same opportunity as boys. Playing at the X for the girls is dumb. The players can't hear their fans or band. Natalie Darwitz agrees. Put them at Ridder and pack the place. It will really have a state tournament atmosphere that the girls deserve. If interest grows down the road, they can move to a bigger venue.


Submitted by Pat Minelli on February 24, 2008 - 6:47pm.

I disagree that girls teams...

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I disagree that girls teams shouldn't be allowed to play at the same venues as the boys team because the crowds aren't big enough. There also happens to be a law (Title IX) that there is to be equal access for girls in sports. Why do either teams have to play at the X or other such venues? Keep the cost down on BOTH sides.


Submitted by Justmeagain on March 5, 2008 - 1:23pm.

There is a difference...

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There is a difference between supporters of the sports and A women’s right activist, i dont think that you can see the difference. the players and fans dont want to be in a big place. i was at every sectiongame and state games for the vollyball team, the section games at prior lake were very fun because you are much more involved. even though that wouldnt be a place to have a state game. when it is smaller you feel much closer to the game and youur team. so i would like it to be held somewhere smaller then the X


Submitted by ta75455ho on March 5, 2008 - 9:18pm.

Let's not mistake something...

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Let's not mistake something here..I am not a women's activist. I am stating a fact..Title IX is law that gives the girls' teams the same opportunities that the boys have. That's the law..sorry.

I don't see the point of any team playing at these huge venues.

Also, just because the girls don't have the same draw as the boys teams why should the girls have to move. Female teams never will have the same draw as male teams regardless of the sport or level (high school, college, Olympics, etc.). Why should female teams always have to play at a smaller venue.


Submitted by Justmeagain on March 6, 2008 - 2:05am.

The law says girls should...

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The law says girls should have the same opportunity -- as in playing the sport with facilities available. It says nothing specifically about the venue for state tournament games.

Why do the boys' teams play at the X? Because an arena that size is needed to fit all the fans. At Ridder, they would have to turn away some 14,000 people each session who want to attend the boys' games if that's where the tourney was held.

Your argument is one that some parents made, and that's why the girls at playing at the X.

I have no problem with them playing at the X. It's not a money issue. But like I said: Ask the players and their coaches who have played there. I think the majority would tell you they would rather play at Ridder. I guess maybe you have to see the small crowds at the X to understand. It's painful for me, an advocate of girls' hockey, and embarrassing.

I feel sorry for the players, because the reminder about the small crowds echoes -- literally -- at the X.


Submitted by Pat Minelli on March 6, 2008 - 12:41pm.

How is Title IX applied to...

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How is Title IX applied to athletics? NUMBER 7 under OTHER BENEFITS addresses - practice and competitive.

Hockey teams have the same number of players, so no ratio can be applied.

Nothing in Title IX states there has to be an equal number of fans coming to the games.

There are three basic parts of Title IX as it applies to athletics:

Participation: requires that women be provided an equitable opportunity to participate in sports as men (not necessarily the identical sports but an equal opportunity to play).

Scholarships: requires that female athletes receive athletic scholarship dollars proportional to their participation (e.g., if there are 100 male athletes/100 female athletes and a $200,000 scholarship budget, then the budget must be split $100,000 to men/$100,000 to women)

Other Benefits: requires equal treatment in the provision of (1) equipment and supplies, (2) scheduling of games and practice times, (3) travel and daily allowance, (4) access to tutoring, (5) coaching, (6) locker rooms, (7) practice and competitive facilities, (8) medical and training facilities and services, (9) publicity and promotions, (10) recruitment of student athletes, and (11) support services.

I really don't care where either hockey teams play.

I was pointing out the flaw of some arguments -- that just because the female hockey teams don't draw enough fans that; they should not have the opportunity to play finals at the Xcel.

Title IX says equal opportunity to play that includes the practice and competitive facilities. Part of the three parts of Title IX compliance.

I did find a statistic that the majority of colleges do not meet the compliance; however high schools are more in compliance.


Submitted by Justmeagain on March 6, 2008 - 2:10pm.

VOTE JUSTMEAGAIN FOR COUNTY...

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PAT T LAND's picture

VOTE JUSTMEAGAIN FOR COUNTY ATTORNEY


Submitted by PAT T LAND on March 6, 2008 - 3:18pm.

Pat I don't want anything to...

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Pat I don't want anything to do with politics. I asked a simple question, just required a simple answer.

Actually you and Kidjon should run.


Submitted by Justmeagain on March 6, 2008 - 4:46pm.

Hey, watch who you're...

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Hey, watch who you're calling Pat! :)


Submitted by Pat Minelli on March 6, 2008 - 5:02pm.

Clarification Pat T Land....

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Clarification Pat T Land. Not Pat Minelli.


Submitted by Justmeagain on March 7, 2008 - 8:48am.

:)...

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:)


Submitted by Pat Minelli on March 7, 2008 - 1:23pm.

I agree that should be able...

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I agree that should be able to play at the X. My point is: Many (if not most) don't want to. It's just too big. I'm concerned that the girls experience a state tournament for what it should be: The biggest thrill of their lives, in a loud, jam-packed arena with screaming fans.

Beutiful Ridder Arena, where my daughter plays college hockey, is a great place, in my opinion.
If they want to play at the X, that's more than fine with me.


Submitted by Pat Minelli on March 6, 2008 - 4:16pm.

I coached girls' hockey for...

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I coached girls' hockey for 12 years and I don't know anyone who is a bigger supporter of the sport than me.

Yes, girls should be able to play in the same venue as the boys. The problem is, even in the state tournament (I went to a couple of games this year), when the crowd in total is in the hundreds, and there are nearly 18,000 empty seats, the players feel like they are in an empty building. They can't even hear their fans in that cavernous building.
They are playing at the X because parents raised the same points you did.
I saw a consolation game at Ridder this year, and though the crowd was in the hundreds, it felt crowded and exciting. That's the women Gophers' own arena -- it's beautiful and fits the size of he crowds that the Gophers draw, which, sadly, is about 2,500 per game.
I'm 100 percent behind the idea of girls playing in the bigger arena when the crowds increase. But if you ask participants at the state tournament the past couple of years (I have), a lot of the girls would tell you it was depressing to play at the X -- they felt like they were back in youth hockey, being watched by their moms and dads at 8 a.m. on a Saturday morning -- in other words, with just a few people here and there.


Submitted by Pat Minelli on March 5, 2008 - 5:26pm.

Here's why the boys'...

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Here's why the boys' tournament is at the X (this is a 2004 report):

The afternoon session for the AA quarterfinals last Thursday drew a tournament-record 19,027, and another 15,571 came for the evening session. Since 1992, total attendance for the event has never dipped below 100,000.


Submitted by Pat Minelli on March 5, 2008 - 5:34pm.

Pat, you are right on about...

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Pat, you are right on about this.

Yes, Ridder Arena is state of the art. It would be perfect for the girls tourney.


Submitted by Tom Schardin on March 6, 2008 - 7:14am.

just kidding with ya.. I...

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PAT T LAND's picture

just kidding with ya.. I must say you do your home work well. A good debate and good Read...Hats off to ya justmeagain


Submitted by PAT T LAND on March 7, 2008 - 1:42am.

I know you were kidding....

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I know you were kidding. Its fun debating (especially from the safety of the internet.).

Have a great day!


Submitted by Justmeagain on March 7, 2008 - 8:50am.

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