Before Caribou and before Starbucks, there were even more independent coffee shops. So many, in fact, that I bet on a per capita basis we had more coffee shops than Seattle. What is the 2nd Caribou location you refer to? I know of only the one at Marschall and Vierling. It seems like so many businesses have missed the target when it comes to market analysis. Rainbow, for example, comes to mind instantly. Now Starbucks and now Dunn Bros. as well.

I really like the idea of non-corporate, locally owned coffee shops. They are unique and the service is usually better. However, it's much cheaper and convenient to stop as a Super America or Holiday now days. Also, diners and restaurants like Perkins used to make a fortune selling coffee by the cup but from what I know the smoking ban is killing business.

I would recommend anyone to spend the time and money visiting a locally owned coffee shop.

All I'm saying is there might be a correlation between smoking and coffee drinking. Not everyone who drinks coffee smokes, but I'm just talking about their habits and nothing political in the sense of smoker's rights, or justifying the habit. -Same thing with bars. This last year has been extremely rough for bar owners. I know this because I work for them and over half the bars I've been in are closing due to the smoking ban and a rough winter. Bar owners can hardly afford their heating bills due to people continuously leaving and re-entering for a smoke. All I'm saying is I'm pretty sure the whole smoking ban has really hurt the bar/restaurant/cafe business. From what I've seen, I'm willing to bet my next paycheck.

Shakmom3, I was referring to places that have (past tense: had) smoking sections.

Yeah, the more I think about it: money is tight. Everything has become expensive and our economy is really hurting.

I still think it was Dunn Bros. locale in Shakopee that precipitated its demise. Economy is second.

Let's think about this:

Location of Dunn Bros. - there is not a lot out there except for Lowe's, Ruby Tuesdays, Subway and CVS. Ruby Tuesdays and Subway is on the same side of the street as Dunn Bros. The Liquor Store near Dunn Bros has already changed ownership. I would think it was because, the sales are lower than other liquor stores - the prices are higher there too.

The way that the parking lot meanders around it was just a pure pain to get to it. And I did frequent Dunn Bros.

Whereas, the Caribous are both located around more populus business areas and their locations doesn't require too much meandering. The East Caribou (Best Buy), there are other eatery business, haircuts, and a gas station, even though you have to cut around on one access roads. Would be interesting to see if the Subway near Dunn Bros. sales are the same as the other 3 locations.

The Say When Coffee Shop closed it was because of poor management. The hours just could not compete and service was slow. It was not because of Starbucks. Studies have shown that the mom and pop coffee shops mostly THRIVE when the chain cookie cutter Starbuck open up nearby.

Starbucks on the otherhand, has committed a mostly fatal business error, "it is competing against itself". Starbucks bottles and sells its cold coffee drinks, and it sells its beans at the local grocery store. People will buy it if they can get it more frugally than spending $3.50 for a cup of coffee. For 8-10 dollars you can go to Target/Cub/Rainbow and buy a bag of Starbuck beans and brew your own. Ask Gap what happened when their entity Old Navy was less costly than their Gap brand. Old Navy is going away...Gap is eliminating its competition.

The smoking ban I think has very little to do with the loss of the Dunn Bros or Starbucks. I believe Starbucks across the board, have been smoke free establishments for years.

I prefer Starbucks. Which, started out as a small "mom and pop" type coffee shop in Seattle. Fortunately, I live in a region of the country where there are about 10 of them within 15 miles of my house. It is good stuff.

It is important to recognize Dunn Bros started out a small local coffeeshop on Snelling & Grand in St. Paul and remained for years the purveyor of some of the finest coffee in the cities.

http://www.dunnbros.com/aboutus.asp

Their coup de grâce, they roasted their beans on site, and they continue to do so in every store across the twin cities today.

Maybe Dunn Bros would consider occupying the site Starbucks will vacate?